When people ask for evidence of God or of Creation they fail to take the most important step to receive it in the first place, as I’ve said many times Concerning Skeptics of the Truth:

http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=B000TDURA6&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifr“Until a person accepts Jesus BY FAITH as the bible instructs them too NO PROOF is ever known by them as true, they will COUNTER every evidence presented with counter evidence, they will get mad and curse, they will demand BETTER evidence, they will walk away, BUT they can’t see what is in front of them. WHY?

Because FAITH as described in scripture is NOT the same faith as defined by those who fight God or that religion abuses, they are not one and the same.

True biblical Faith is defined in Hebrews 11:1,  is where ALL the questions of God and about God are answered completely, where PROOF is found. Faith CONTAINS the proof, First acceptance then the proof not the other way around.
To many times I have seen definitions of Faith from Atheist web pages that are outright FALSEHOODS, distortions of fact that bring their minds rest in the short term but bring NOTHING to the table of debate. It is dishonest to FALSELY-DEFINE your enemies intentions to win a false argument for a short time!

HERE IS THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT BIBLE FAITH!!!

http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=B00142IKLE&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrHebrews 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

Now let’s see it from the Amplified bible

NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, [a]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].”

If Atheists are going to get their facts right they must first stop defining Faith like this:

Faith means believing something without proper evidence to support it.

This is the kind of dishonest debate that Atheists practice openly without the least bit of remorse. 
Shady word play and outright lie’s define their tactics, now I would ask one simple question here, IF your stand upon your http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=B003JY7912&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrevidence is that shaky and unfounded that you must lie about the enemy you face, then I think you’ve already lost!  
This is simply an unfair and inaccurate definition of faith on which to base your denial, it causes you to come to a wrong conclusion concerning God and the evidence before you start.


This may seem like “circular reasoning” to you but it is a fact, its how the system was set up by God, you FIRST ACCEPT his word on faith, by faith and through faith THEN the faith God gives you releases the PROOF of the evidence your seeking.

When I came to this faith I didn’t believe anything in the bible was true but once I came to the end of myself and let him deliver me the BLINDERS were removed and I could see the truth.

We can see this principle in regular every day life as well, have you ever looked hard for something, looked in every place it could be and couldn’t find it, then decided it wasn’t there and got a new one at the store, brought it home and THEN found the old one right where you looked for it at? 

http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=0786868724&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrI sure have, and its frustrating at best, but just because I couldn’t find it didn’t mean it wasn’t there!

You had the same eyes before that you had later yet you could not see it, its a matter of perspective, being in hurry, or being angry when you first looked plus we all have internalized presuppositions as to the outcomes and understandings we’ve grown up with which determine how we look at the world.

Does the statement “I’ll believe it when I see it, apply, well I hope not because IT WAS THERE even though I didn’t see it and got another one, wasted my money and time, sometimes we CAN’T believe our eyes, they can be very unreliable, as all our human emotions are without being grounded in something greater.

The concept of God is no different, and no matter how long or how hard we seek God after our ways and means the pure and holy means of FAITH is the final frontier of proof!

That something greater is FAITH!

http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=160374083X&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrFaith takes over where our emotions leave us high and dry, something Christians sometimes get backwards, trusting in emotions can be very dangerous as they are moving as the waves of the ocean. But solid belief that is grounded in an absolute cannot be shaken because you know the source of your belief and trust it.

This may be simplistic but it follows the same premise as God revealing himself in all his glory to you once you follow his plan to get the evidence to reveal the proof.

Religion does not have this absolute source, it mimics it in name only, but is actually only based in what men say God says instead of the source, the Bible.

BOTH sides have evidence that’s true, but that evidence must be supported by ALL the facts involved, all the Laws of physics and Science must be obeyed by that evidence or it is not true evidence. 

The Second Laws of Thermodynamics is a LAW, if your evidence breaks this Law then your conclusions on your evidence are wrong plain and simple, no way around it. Evolution breaks the Law outright, “The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy, a measure of randomness, cannot decrease in a isolated system. Our planet is not a isolated system.” This is the study of heat power; a branch of physics which studies the efficiency of energy transfer and exchange.

Evolutionism claims that over billions of years everything is basically developing UPWARD, becoming more orderly and complex. However, this basic law of science (2nd Law of http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=0883685744&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrThermodynamics) says the opposite. The pressure is DOWNWARD, toward simplification and disorder.

Simply watch the News and you’ll see that this is not true, life degenerates into decay and disorder every day but Naturalistic Evolutionism requires that physical laws and atoms organize themselves into increasingly complex and beneficial, ordered arrangements.

Thus, over eons of time, billions of things are supposed to have developed upward, becoming more orderly and complex.

A number of scientists believe the 2nd Law, when truly understood, is enough to refute the theory of Evolution. In fact, it is one of the most important reasons why various Evolutionists have dropped their theory in favor of Creationism.

The distinguished scientist and origins expert, Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith, puts it this way:

“What is the difference then between a stick, which is dead, and an orchid which is alive? The difference is that the orchid has teleonomy in it. It is a machine which is capturing energy to increase order. Where you have life, you have teleonomy, and then the Sun’s energy can be taken and make the thing grow – increasing its order” [temporarily].

Teleonomy: Information stored within a living thing. Teleonomy involves the concept of http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=0883684268&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrsomething having a design and purpose. Non-teleonomy is “directionlessness,” having no project. The teleonomy of a living thing is somehow stored within its genes. 

Teleonomy can use energy and matter to produce order and complexity.

Where did the teleonomy of living things originate? 

It is important to note that the teleonomy (the ordering principle, the know-how) does not reside in matter itself. Matter, itself, is not creative.

Dr. Wilder-Smith:

http://www.christiananswers.n…

“The pure chemistry of a cell is not enough to explain the working of a cell, although the workings are chemical. The chemical workings of a cell are controlled by information which does not reside in the atoms and molecules.”

Creationists believe cells build themselves from carefully designed and coded information which has been passed from one life to the next since their original inception.

It is evidence like this that should give pause at the very least, each piece of evidence (This is just one) adds up to proof once Faith completes the circle of evidence. But I know that you will http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=1604590610&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrnot see it this way as yet, I’m only explaining how I see it. Thank you for your time and I hope to talk more soon!

You are absolutely RIGHT if you say:
“I don’t believe any Christian can show proof that God exists or doesn’t exist; so until any of you can do that, this whole topic is nothing more than personal opinion, or FAITH in what you believe to be truth, but in no way makes any of it absolute.”

But you would be totally wrong about one thing I WON’T CONDEMN YOU AT ALL!

I mean that, you have every right to feel that way about religion, IT IS A TOTAL FAILURE in representing God, always has been and always will be because it is owned and operated by Human Beings. What Christians need to learn when talking about this subject is that NO ONE can come to the conclusion of PROOF until it goes from external Talking to internalized FAITH.

Until a person accepts Jesus BY FAITH as the bible instructs them too NO PROOF is ever known by them as true, they will COUNTER every evidence presented with counter evidence, they will get mad and curse, they will demand BETTER evidence, they will walk away, BUT they can’t see what is in front of them. 

WHY?
http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=1581344309&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrBecause FAITH as described in scripture is NOT in any way the same as the faith defined by those who fight God or that religion abuses, they are not one and the same.

True biblical Faith is defined in Hebrews 11:1, this is where ALL the questions of God are answered completely, where PROOF is found. Faith CONTAINS the proof, First acceptance then the proof not the other way around.

It is no different than on your Job, your employer requires that you FIRST WORK, then he’ll Pays you for the work you’ve DONE, your employer will not give you the reward first or most would take the money and run.
God is no different, he requires FIRST faith, then the rewards of proof are released by and through that faith.
http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=0830827420&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrDon’t Check Your Brains at the Door: A Book of Christian Evidences (Know What You Believe and Why) 

TRUTH must be absolute or its pointless to even make any statement at all, if Truth is not an absolute then NOTHING anyone says means anything at all, going the way of the NON-Absolute make conversation silly at best there must be a rock solid stating place or its “sinking sand beliefs” of men, as soon as a point is made a counter point is made and NO evidence can stand on ether side of any issue. 
Its not that they don’t have good points to make, its that they will not admit being wrong when they are wrong, this is just plain childish behavior. I admit if I’m wrong without fail, because then I can learn a new approach that works better, most FAILURES in reasoning produce a more rounded argument when we are stretched and challenged with our beliefs.
Religion is NOT where the evidence stands the test, yet that becomes the whole ARENA to them, Jesus Christ himself is quoted in scripture HATING MAN’S RELIGION so its not the http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=0830832351&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrissue here, its the Scientific evidence, the Historical facts and Changed Lives that CANNOT be hidden to an HONEST seeker that PROVE God is really there.
WHAT IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH? 
http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=0446580635&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrDivine DNA.(The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes )(Book review): An article from: Skeptic (Altadena, CA)

At no time have I had a good conversation with a true Atheist, THEY HAVE MADE UP THEIR MINDS before ever listening to your evidence. This is called “Closed Minded Debating”not logical open debate!
I have had better conversations with Agnostics because they at least ARE Honest when presented with REAL evidence they can’t explain UNLIKE an Atheist who resorts to insults, and swearing when confronted with something that blows their theory out of the water! 
Why NAME-CALL if your presentation is so right? This goes especially for believers, at NO TIME should we return evil for evil, this is Satan’s trick to make us no better than they are.
Remember if there are no absolute truths, then your “No-god” theory is no more valid than my “There is a God” theory, and we are at a crossroad of no point to the whole argument, that is where Satan likes it to stay! 
http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=B003ZK50T8&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrIf there is no such thing as absolute truth, then no-one can really say, “He should do that” or “She shouldn’t do that”. 
All you can say is, “A lot of people feel that this action would not make people feel good”. So you can’t say, “Multinational companies should not exploit the poor and destroy the environment”.
If relativists are right, a company executive might respond, “That may be true for you, but it is certainly not true for us”. 
Do you see the ethical consequences of throwing out the belief in absolute truth? 
 Christians are not calling people to become gullible, or to throw their minds out by taking an unreasonable “leap of faith”. 
Our faith is not rooted in mystical sayings that sound profound but actually have no real meaning
It is rooted in historical events, such as the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 
ABSOLUTE TRUTHS! 
http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=0828013284&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrWe have good reason to believe all men will die or face the judgment of God when Christ returns. There will be no escape from reality then. 
This is an unpopular idea, and may drive actually drive some away who are not willing to really investigate and consider honestly and deeply, with courage.


To say that”There is no absolute truth” is that absolutely true? 
If it is, then there is something that is absolutely true – that statement itself. 
If it isn’t absolutely true, then why insist that we should all believe it?
 It is logically inconsistent to deny the reality of absolute truth. Even if everyone in the world denied its existence, they would all be wrong, as  shown by the arguments above. 

But if logic itself has no ultimate validity, there is no objective basis for communication, rationality and so much that could give meaning to our world. It is certain that we would never have made any scientific or technological progress at all if we had started out with this kind of thinking. 

http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=B004FV7VUC&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrBut if there is ultimate objective truth, what is it? Even if we know it exists, does not imply that any person on earth actually has it. Everything ought to be examined and tested, as even the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:21). 

Hence there are “Big Issues” which ought to be considered by all men. 

Questions like, “Is there life after death?”, “Am I an accident or a creation of God?”, “What should I be doing?” all make sense only if objective truth and reality exist.

This is the real problem, not that there IS NO PROOF but that no evidence can be accepted as proof because I can simply counter with “There are no absolutes, truth is what I make of it and no more!” 

This is the childish reasoning of the school yard “I know you are but what am I” don’t be fooled by unreasonable statements about God.

What the world sees as Christian is NOT christian at all it is man made false religion, it is a true case of MISTAKEN IDENTITY. 

 
http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=188131636X&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrMost see the church as Catholic and Protestant, but these are simply man invented FAKE COPY’S of the realities that God instituted through Jesus.

They DO NOT represent his word in any way except in using scripture to justify their crimes against God’s commands and Man’s understanding, in this we agree I’m sure.

The Babylon Connection? 

True and False Reform in the Church 

Religion of Peace?: Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t 

Behind the Cross: Exposing the Tricks and Schemes of the False Church 

Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, The: Recognizing and Escaping Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority Within the Church 

http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=theope-20&o=1&p=8&l=bpl&asins=115449926X&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifrRemoving the Veil of Deception: How to Recognize Lying Signs, False Wonders, and Seducing Spirits 

God’s Outlaw: The Story Of William Tyndale 

A brief discovery of the false churches: wherein the rights of the Christian church are further asserted by the Holy Scriptures. … by Henry Barrow … 

An Abridgment of the Book of Martyrs: To Which are Prefixed, the Living Testimonies of the Church of God, and Faithful Martyr, in Different Ages of the World; and the Corrupt Fruits of the False Church, in the Time of the Apostancy. To This Work …